△2021清华国际艺术与设计教育大会

鲁晓波：我觉得这种交流非常有必要，我们这次也特别在结构上也进行了设计，有院校长论坛、学术论坛、工作坊、优秀毕业作品展。这些部分也借助了新的技术突破，比如通过网络进行线上线下相融合的工作坊，或是跨时空的国际会议。

Lu Xiaobo: I think this kind of exchange is very necessary. We also specially designed the structure this time, including the principal forum, academic forum, workshop, exhibition of excellent Graduation Works. These parts also take advantage of new technological breakthroughs, such as online and offline fusion workshops through the Internet, or international conferences across time and space.

昨天下午我去参加了“零重力时尚”的展览，我觉得挺有意思，学生也蛮富有想象力。人类未来移居到太空不是他们漫无边际的想象，确实有航天方面的学者、专家在指导他们。我们想构建一个永不落幕的，全球顶级知名设计院校的学生毕业作品展。如果这个平台能不断完善，不断扩大，我觉得也能增进不同民族、不同国家间设计界的交流。我觉得甚至在就业、合作上，都可能带来新的可能性。

Yesterday afternoon, I went to the "Zero Gravity Fashion" exhibition. I found it very interesting and the students were quite imaginative. It is not their endless imagination that human beings will move to space in the future. There are indeed scholars and experts in aerospace who are guiding them. We want to build a never-ending exhibition of students' graduation works from the world's top-renowned design schools. If this platform can be continuously improved and expanded, I think it can also enhance the exchanges between the design circles of different nations and countries. I think even in terms of employment and cooperation, it may bring new possibilities.

田川：我是学服装设计的，所以对“零重力时尚”特别感兴趣。在那里我看到了天马行空的想象，还有对未来30年在其它星球生存可能性的思考，您觉得在它背后我们真正关注的问题是什么？

Tian Chuan: I studied fashion design, so I am particularly interested in "zero-gravity fashion". There I saw the imagination of wild horses, and the thought about the possibility of survival on other planets in the next 30 years. What do you think is our real concern behind it?

鲁晓波：我们既在原有的物理世界生存，又在完全虚拟的世界生存。物理世界现有的生活模式和方式肯定会延续，进入到虚拟世界后你也要符合它的生态环境，人该如何去适应？是我们面临的巨大挑战。这件事取决于构建系统的人和他们的智慧。讨论到这里就发现，这不仅仅是一个技术问题，更多的是人文艺术，甚至是哲学问题。共识就是，设计学科必须为未来的改变提前做好准备。

Lu Xiaobo: We live both in the original physical world and in a completely virtual world. The existing modes and ways of life in the physical world will definitely continue. After entering the virtual world, you must conform to its ecological environment. How should people adapt? It is the great challenge we face. It depends on the people who built the system and their wisdom. At the end of the discussion, I found that this is not just a technical issue, but a humanistic and artistic issue, and even a philosophical issue. The consensus is that the design discipline must be prepared in advance for future changes.

△“零重力时尚”展厅

田川：您从哪年开始画鹤的？

Tian Chuan: When did you start painting cranes?

鲁晓波：我记得第一次画鹤应该是在德国，在德国思乡的时候。

Lu Xiaobo: I remember that the first time I painted a crane was in Germany, when I was homesick in Germany.

△鲁晓波作品

△鲁晓波 画鹤

鲁晓波：东方人对丹顶鹤情有独钟，赋予了它很多内涵。最开始画鹤的时候，我并没有真的见过丹顶鹤。把鹤画成现在的这样，是在我见到真鹤以后，而且是野生鹤。当它从远方飞过来的那一瞬间，我的信念都被震撼了。

Lu Xiaobo: Orientals have a soft spot for red-crowned cranes, which gives it a lot of connotations. When I first painted cranes, I had never really seen a red-crowned crane. I painted the crane as it is now, after I saw the real crane, and it is a wild crane. When it flew over from a distance, my faith was shocked.

田川：现在说的虚拟世界，元宇宙，我都觉得是一件我还没能特别理解的事情。像我刚才看展的时候发现，好多画作都被做成了电子版放在大屏幕上。我觉得这是一件特别好的事情，因为它可以把全世界学生的作品都集中在一起，但同时我又觉得它没了原作的那种质感。

Tian Chuan: I think the virtual world and the meta-universe that I am talking about is something I haven't really understood yet. Like when I watched the exhibition just now, I discovered that many of the paintings have been made into electronic versions and placed on the big screen. I think this is a particularly good thing, because it can bring together the works of students from all over the world, but at the same time I think it lacks the texture of the original.

鲁晓波：我觉得人对艺术及很多事物的认知是在不断发展的。艺术要反映生活，反映这个时代，就一定要有能体现这个时代特点的艺术，否则我觉得人类文明就会停止。

Lu Xiaobo: I think people's cognition of art and many things is constantly developing. If art wants to reflect life and reflect this era, there must be art that can reflect the characteristics of this era, otherwise I think human civilization will cease.

艺术范式也在发生变化，我们现在的制造业已经不仅仅是在物理空间进行，甚至延伸到了虚拟世界。所以设计一定要超前关注未来的可能性。既按科学的逻辑，也按人文艺术或社会的逻辑来构建未来的世界。一定是这样的，否则我们将会失去很多东西。就像你刚说的感知，为什么在今天的数字世界中，我们的体验感越来越被削弱了？比如手机，你可以把它当做各种工具使用。

The paradigm of art is also changing. Our current manufacturing industry is not only carried out in the physical space, but even extends to the virtual world. Therefore, the design must pay attention to the possibility of the future ahead of time. Construct the future world not only according to the logic of science, but also according to the logic of humanities, art or society. It must be like this, otherwise we will lose a lot of things. Just like the perception you just said, why is our sense of experience increasingly weakened in today's digital world? For example, a mobile phone, you can use it as a variety of tools.

田川：都变成我们的器官之一了。

Tian Chuan: It has become one of our organs.

鲁晓波：没错，其实这对人来讲是一种异化。感觉是构建人类丰富生活非常重要的部分，如果这部分失去了，就很难想象了。

Lu Xiaobo: Yes, this is actually a kind of alienation to people. Feeling is a very important part of constructing a rich human life. If this part is lost, it will be hard to imagine.

鲁晓波：新技术让整个世界都重新翻篇了，我们将重新塑造我们的生活方式、产业模式，以及人与人，国家与国家之间的关系。所以我觉得在这样一个特殊的历史时期，我们面向这些世界性的问题，中国应该有自己的解决方案。以工业设计为例，几乎今天所有的逻辑判断，智能机器都能做到。智能AI鲁班可以每秒推算出八千张海报，拓扑的智能设计在定义好功能后，可以自动生成有机的结构形式，结构上绝对合理，而且不浪费一点材料。所以我们今天应该怎么教育学生？要从价值塑造、能力培养和知识传授去考虑。设计师最终是负有社会责任的，如何关注不同社会阶层人的平等问题......

Lu Xiaobo: New technologies have re-opened the whole world. We will reshape our lifestyles, industrial models, and the relationship between people and countries. So I think in such a special historical period, when we face these global problems, China should have its own solutions. Taking industrial design as an example, smart machines can do almost all logical judgments today. The intelligent AI Luban can calculate 8,000 posters per second, and the intelligent topology design can automatically generate organic structural forms after defining the functions. The structure is absolutely reasonable and does not waste a little material. So how should we educate students today? It should be considered in terms of value shaping, ability training and knowledge transfer. Designers are ultimately socially responsible, how to pay attention to the equality of people from different social classes......

这个时代，科学和艺术应该融合。我们不单是用科学逻辑、自然逻辑去解决问题，一定是人文和科学相融合地面对人类发展所面临的挑战。

In this era, science and art should merge. We not only use scientific logic and natural logic to solve problems, but also the integration of humanities and science to face the challenges faced by human development.

△鲁晓波  青年时期

青年时代的鲁晓波，怀着对绘画的单纯兴趣，走入了工艺美术的殿堂，经历剧变的年代，那股自由探索的冲动、对科技和未来的憧憬，使他第一次做出了清晰而坚定的人生选择。

In his youth, Lu Xiaobo entered the hall of arts and crafts with a pure interest in painting. He experienced the era of drastic changes. The impulse to explore freely, the longing for technology and the future made him the first time he did it. A clear and firm life choice.

鲁晓波：男孩子天生喜欢汽车造型、飞机造型，后来才知道原来它们那么酷。说老实话以前还比较封闭，当时在北京图书馆看到了海外期刊，看完后我对《汽车式样》这本杂志印象很深。在里面看到了卢金科拉尼设计的飞机、汽车、相机、服装、咖啡壶……什么都有，我就发现原来人类还有这么伟大的事业。它把我有限的知识和兴趣全调动起来了，一个是对绘画的兴趣，对形态的敏感，一个是对科技的向往和对未来的憧憬。所以我当时毫不犹豫地认为，工业设计就是我未来的职业，毕生奋斗的职业。因为它真正把科学、艺术，以及人类的生活和社会发展融在了一起。

Lu Xiaobo: Boys are naturally fond of car shapes and airplane shapes, but later I learned that they are so cool. To be honest, it was relatively closed before. At that time, I saw overseas journals in the Beijing Library. After reading it, I was very impressed with the magazine "Car Style". I saw the airplanes, cars, cameras, clothing, coffee pots, etc. designed by Lugin Korani inside, and I realized that humans still have such a great career. It has mobilized all my limited knowledge and interests, one is the interest in painting, the sensitivity to the form, the other is the yearning for technology and the longing for the future. So I didn't hesitate to think that industrial design is my future career, a career I will strive for all my life. Because it truly integrates science, art, and human life and social development.

△鲁晓波  青年时期 (一排右三)

鲁晓波：1983年我第一次出国，十几天走遍了全德国十几间设计院校。当时我们的触动非常大，到处都是新鲜的，城市，城市的家具，设施……对我们来说都是新鲜的。那时我们家的家具都是请木工来做的，到德国一看，人家店里卖的都是成系统的家具。

Lu Xiaobo: I went abroad for the first time in 1983, and traveled to more than a dozen design colleges in Germany for more than ten days. At that time, we were very touched, everything was fresh, the city, the city’s furniture, facilities...all were fresh to us. At that time, the furniture in our house was made by woodworkers. When I went to Germany, I found that the furniture sold in other stores were all systematic furniture.

还有就是它的现代美学思想和法则。我们知道包豪斯开创了现代艺术的先河。他从人才培养上，把科学工程技术融为一体，在这之前都是师傅带徒弟。另外他第一次提出了批量生产的概念，实际是应对新的工业化法则和设计思维模式的构建。新的方法，新的工具，这些东西对我的触动非常大。
There is also its modern aesthetic thoughts and laws. We know that Bauhaus created a precedent for modern art. He has integrated science, engineering and technology from the perspective of talent training. Prior to this, he was a master and apprentice. In addition, he put forward the concept of mass production for the first time, which actually responded to the construction of new industrialization laws and design thinking models. New methods, new tools, these things touched me very much.

△鲁晓波  赴德留学

鲁晓波：之前在德国听的一个演示，是一整套牙科医生设备的设计。它就需要学生到医院去体验一个病人，一个护士，一个医生的视角，然后分析记录每一个动作，所有东西都是非常严谨的。只有这样他才知道椅子要多高，哪个地方要放什么东西，这些东西该怎么互动……一个真正高品质的产品，要建立出科学合理的工作模式和流程，没有这样严谨的态度是很难做好的。

Lu Xiaobo: A demonstration I listened to in Germany before was the design of a complete set of dentist equipment. It requires students to go to the hospital to experience the perspective of a patient, a nurse, and a doctor, and then analyze and record every action. Everything is very rigorous. Only in this way can he know how high the chair is, where to put what, and how these things should interact... For a truly high-quality product, it is difficult to establish a scientific and reasonable working model and process without such a rigorous attitude. Well done.

△鲁晓波接受凤凰卫视《名人面对面》主持人田川专访

鲁晓波：去参观德意志银行的时候，我们就感叹整个室内的设计、功能性、质量、品质，都做得非常好。我记得一个银行负责人跟我们说，你们别老赞叹我们，其实中国的设计和制造是非常优秀的，我带你去看我们的镇馆之宝。去了以后发现整间屋子就展示了一件物品，是中国明式的条案。他说这才是人类造物文化的巅峰，中国有非常好的设计和制造传统。我们当时很吃惊，原来德国人对中国的历史、设计和人们生活的研究已经很深了。在遥远的彼岸去审视，去观察的时候，我才真正体会到这点。

Lu Xiaobo: When we visited Deutsche Bank, we sighed that the design, functionality, quality, and quality of the entire interior were very well done. I remember a person in charge of a bank told us, "Don't always praise us. In fact, China's design and manufacturing are very good. I will show you the treasure of our town hall." After I went there, I found that the whole room displayed an item, which was a Chinese Ming-style case. He said that this is the pinnacle of human creation culture, and China has a very good design and manufacturing tradition. We were surprised at that time. It turned out that the Germans had already studied China's history, design and people's lives very deeply. I really realized this when I was looking at and observing on the far shore.

鲁晓波：很多德国教授跟我讲起中国的造物文化思想，“物尽其用，大道至简，简约至极”这些都是他们时时